archipellago
May 2, 04:32 PM
Such a load of crap that is.
'we've interviewed hackers after conviction'
:rolleyes:
I work for one of the biggest bank in the world and specialise in bank fraud, we liaise with the major law enforcement group all over the world.
Cutting a deal with a hacker, if we can get one who's up high enough can save millions....with the right info.
mac users tend to be socially engineered via simpler methods anyway, wonder why that is...? :rolleyes:
'we've interviewed hackers after conviction'
:rolleyes:
I work for one of the biggest bank in the world and specialise in bank fraud, we liaise with the major law enforcement group all over the world.
Cutting a deal with a hacker, if we can get one who's up high enough can save millions....with the right info.
mac users tend to be socially engineered via simpler methods anyway, wonder why that is...? :rolleyes:
sinsin07
Apr 9, 09:42 AM
Or would be part of a larger game as sub-games. Nintendo do understand this kind of gaming but package it differently. I am not at all convinced that that packaging & pricing strategy would not work on iOS.
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ksegel
Nov 10, 07:07 PM
I agree that it is mostly AT&T, don't get me wrong I love my iphone 3gs, but i have heard that there were issues for many people who were using 3gs and upgraded their phones, some had more dropped calls (which i seem to be having) and some had more serious problems.
http://www.maclife.com/article/news/ios_4_update_problems_plague_iphone_3g_users
I would love to get a I phone 4 and I'd love it if half the people who were using Iphones were on verizon so AT&T may actually be able to handle the usage on its network.
It is the fault of AT&T, not the iPhone. Every call I make gets dropped. It makes no difference if I use my iPhone 4 or my LG phone.
http://www.maclife.com/article/news/ios_4_update_problems_plague_iphone_3g_users
I would love to get a I phone 4 and I'd love it if half the people who were using Iphones were on verizon so AT&T may actually be able to handle the usage on its network.
It is the fault of AT&T, not the iPhone. Every call I make gets dropped. It makes no difference if I use my iPhone 4 or my LG phone.
jmsait19
Mar 18, 02:36 PM
Oh! There goes the email from Gorog to the Music Labels!
even so, if an itms song's drm is cracked, you still payed 99 cents for it. where if the napster to go drm is cracked, people have thousands of songs for 15 bucks a month. which hurts more?
even so, if an itms song's drm is cracked, you still payed 99 cents for it. where if the napster to go drm is cracked, people have thousands of songs for 15 bucks a month. which hurts more?
Apple OC
Apr 23, 02:23 AM
The six creative "days" occurred after the creation of the "heavens and the earth." That means the universe (and the earth) was in existence for an indefinite amount of time before the creative days began.
The word translated "day" can mean various lengths of time, not just a 24-hour period. Genesis 2:4 refers to God creating the "heavens and the earth" in a single day, yet Exodus 20:11 says it took six days to create the "heavens and the earth." By calling light day and darkness night, it's actually showing that only a portion of a 24-hour period is defined by the term "day." When the sun comes up at your house and then goes down, does that equal an entire day, lasting 24 hours? Psalms 90:4 says that a thousand years to man is merely a day to humans. So how can you logically conclude that the term "day" is strictly indicating a 24-hour period?
sounds a little conflicting ... I write it off as jibberish ... I'll stick with science instead
The word translated "day" can mean various lengths of time, not just a 24-hour period. Genesis 2:4 refers to God creating the "heavens and the earth" in a single day, yet Exodus 20:11 says it took six days to create the "heavens and the earth." By calling light day and darkness night, it's actually showing that only a portion of a 24-hour period is defined by the term "day." When the sun comes up at your house and then goes down, does that equal an entire day, lasting 24 hours? Psalms 90:4 says that a thousand years to man is merely a day to humans. So how can you logically conclude that the term "day" is strictly indicating a 24-hour period?
sounds a little conflicting ... I write it off as jibberish ... I'll stick with science instead
Rodimus Prime
Mar 13, 04:48 PM
Wind would be fine as a back bone source if the geographical spread was big enough (it's always windy in one area or another) and in spite of people saying energy storage is a problem in fact it's not.(see for instance the Ffestiniog Power Station in north Wales which has been operating since the early sixties)
wind is not considered fine. We can only count on about 30% of it at any one time. Biggest plus they provide us is that it reduces the stress on our other systems. They allow other power planets to run at lower points and not burn as much fuel.
30% is not considered a good back bone.
Energy storage is yes a problem. We can store some but it is not cost effective.
wind is not considered fine. We can only count on about 30% of it at any one time. Biggest plus they provide us is that it reduces the stress on our other systems. They allow other power planets to run at lower points and not burn as much fuel.
30% is not considered a good back bone.
Energy storage is yes a problem. We can store some but it is not cost effective.
Tobsterius
Apr 13, 06:39 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8G4)
Looks like Apple made it easier to use and the so-called "Pros" feel threatened by that because it takes less specialized knowledge to do impressive work. We might not be there yet, but in time even grandma can edit. You get the point.
Part of the reason established IT folk feel so threatened by Apple.
You're incorrect... well... at least I think you are.
I have yet to meet a professional in this field that resists products getting easier to use. But what professionals hate are changes so drastic that 1) there's a learning curve, thus slowing them down, preventing them to make a living and 2) removing features that significantly change the workflow that allow them to work quickly and creatively.
Number 2 is my biggest worry. A complete rewrite is great. 64 bit is great. Grand Central is great. Multi-Core is great. What isn't great is the potential loss of features. Even the littlest feature, that most people would find mundane, could be very important to editors who've become used to that feature being in their workflow.
I work in broadcast/cable news where editors have to turn packages around quickly. You remove features that prevent them to work quickly because it altered their workflow... well now you're in trouble.
I can buy the excuse "Well they'll add it in version 2" if we're talking about consumer programs like iMovie. iMovie is not "mission critical."
But that feature that existed in the old-world FCP versions MUST be in X from day one, IMO, or else Apple will face a steep uphill battle to win FCP editors back.
Looks like Apple made it easier to use and the so-called "Pros" feel threatened by that because it takes less specialized knowledge to do impressive work. We might not be there yet, but in time even grandma can edit. You get the point.
Part of the reason established IT folk feel so threatened by Apple.
You're incorrect... well... at least I think you are.
I have yet to meet a professional in this field that resists products getting easier to use. But what professionals hate are changes so drastic that 1) there's a learning curve, thus slowing them down, preventing them to make a living and 2) removing features that significantly change the workflow that allow them to work quickly and creatively.
Number 2 is my biggest worry. A complete rewrite is great. 64 bit is great. Grand Central is great. Multi-Core is great. What isn't great is the potential loss of features. Even the littlest feature, that most people would find mundane, could be very important to editors who've become used to that feature being in their workflow.
I work in broadcast/cable news where editors have to turn packages around quickly. You remove features that prevent them to work quickly because it altered their workflow... well now you're in trouble.
I can buy the excuse "Well they'll add it in version 2" if we're talking about consumer programs like iMovie. iMovie is not "mission critical."
But that feature that existed in the old-world FCP versions MUST be in X from day one, IMO, or else Apple will face a steep uphill battle to win FCP editors back.
takao
Mar 13, 03:48 PM
As per the typical anti-nuclear sentiment; much of these issues can be resolved rather easily. New reactor designs are far safer, and if you really want safety (as in you can't melt down, ever) then PBR or MSR with thorium is the way to go. Waste an issue? Shouldn't be-- the US needs to complete the fuel cycle with breeder reactors. Furthermore, spent fuel rods can be used locally for power via thermal couples-- this is how NASA powers most of it's spacecraft. As thermal couple efficiency increases, this will become a much more viable solution. If thorium is used (and it should be), the overall lifespan of the byproducts is greatly decreased, meaning waste is even less of an issue.
oh the "thorium pebble bed is superiour" discussion ... i think over the years i had that one a dozen times(even on macrumors) ... a technology developed since the 60ties with spectacular failures regarding safe operation and economical total disasters for the german tax payers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVR_Reactor
the AVR test reactor alone: construction costs adjusted for inflation did it cost 180 million euro... deconstruction + decommisioning 1 billion euro over the last 22 years (and still not finished)
the highest contaminated facility regarding beta-radiation in the world
There exists currently no dismantling method for the AVR vessel, but it is planned to develop some procedure during the next 60 years and to start with vessel dismantling at the end of the century
that said the german government was still set on that reactor type and built actually a full scale power station:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THTR-300
-14 years to build, 3 years of operation
-had a release of nuclear material just days after Chernobyl
-bankrupted it's operational company, required a bail out
-in 1997 was put into 'safe enclosure' until decommision can start in 2027 (costing 6.5 million euro per year until they can even start)
thorium pebble bed reactors, the nuclear power plant for the future generations ... to clean up ;)
oh the "thorium pebble bed is superiour" discussion ... i think over the years i had that one a dozen times(even on macrumors) ... a technology developed since the 60ties with spectacular failures regarding safe operation and economical total disasters for the german tax payers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVR_Reactor
the AVR test reactor alone: construction costs adjusted for inflation did it cost 180 million euro... deconstruction + decommisioning 1 billion euro over the last 22 years (and still not finished)
the highest contaminated facility regarding beta-radiation in the world
There exists currently no dismantling method for the AVR vessel, but it is planned to develop some procedure during the next 60 years and to start with vessel dismantling at the end of the century
that said the german government was still set on that reactor type and built actually a full scale power station:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THTR-300
-14 years to build, 3 years of operation
-had a release of nuclear material just days after Chernobyl
-bankrupted it's operational company, required a bail out
-in 1997 was put into 'safe enclosure' until decommision can start in 2027 (costing 6.5 million euro per year until they can even start)
thorium pebble bed reactors, the nuclear power plant for the future generations ... to clean up ;)
grue
Apr 12, 10:54 PM
I'm the angriest Mac user / professional FCP user I know, and even I'm blown away. Are there things I'm curious to see how they work out? Sure. But overall� wow.
puma1552
Mar 12, 03:43 AM
Oh cr*p. The headline is 'huge explosion'.
I think it's clearly time to start making comparisons with Chernobyl and discussing how widespread the radiation damage is now potentially gong to be rather than praising how Japanese reactors are different to Soviet ones. That huge cloud of smoke is enough to tell anyone expert or not that this is already way beyond just getting backup cooling diesel generators operational again - we're witnessing a massive disaster genuine bona fide China Syndrome meltdown.
Why is this Chernobyl?
What are the similarities?
What are the differences?
What's your background?
Do you understand why Chernobyl is uninhabitable for several hundred years, while Hiroshima and Nagasaki are thriving, gorgeous cities?
Did you freak out at the "1000x" radiation levels too, like the rest of the western media did who didn't have the remotest clue that it was still magnitudes below the hazardous level? You certainly buy into the "Huge Explosion!!!" headlines, as evidenced by your post, so it's hard to take anything you say seriously.
It's a serious situation, but you are panicking a little too much, with next to zero information.
I think it's clearly time to start making comparisons with Chernobyl and discussing how widespread the radiation damage is now potentially gong to be rather than praising how Japanese reactors are different to Soviet ones. That huge cloud of smoke is enough to tell anyone expert or not that this is already way beyond just getting backup cooling diesel generators operational again - we're witnessing a massive disaster genuine bona fide China Syndrome meltdown.
Why is this Chernobyl?
What are the similarities?
What are the differences?
What's your background?
Do you understand why Chernobyl is uninhabitable for several hundred years, while Hiroshima and Nagasaki are thriving, gorgeous cities?
Did you freak out at the "1000x" radiation levels too, like the rest of the western media did who didn't have the remotest clue that it was still magnitudes below the hazardous level? You certainly buy into the "Huge Explosion!!!" headlines, as evidenced by your post, so it's hard to take anything you say seriously.
It's a serious situation, but you are panicking a little too much, with next to zero information.
G58
Oct 16, 06:04 AM
Oh, I see, more examples of your inability to begin sentences with uppercase letters. Thank you.
it's funny how you're complaining about sentence structure, when it's clear you can't even read...
read post #134, incase you're too retarded to scroll,
here you go
next time read before you post so you don't look stupid while trying to act smart..
key word is "trying"
ps. you can edit and send a final draft of my post to me through PM
it's funny how you're complaining about sentence structure, when it's clear you can't even read...
read post #134, incase you're too retarded to scroll,
here you go
next time read before you post so you don't look stupid while trying to act smart..
key word is "trying"
ps. you can edit and send a final draft of my post to me through PM
PhantomPumpkin
Apr 21, 08:55 AM
Which is ironic considering Steve Jobs lamented the carriers walled garden. I love my iPhone, but I also understand that I traded AT&Ts walled garden for Apples.
How exactly did AT&T have a walled garden, at least in the same sense as Apple? Normally I'm against that much control, but I don't think it bothers me as much because there are other options.
I'd probably be less okay with Apple's garden if my choices were only Apple, and I've been a fan of/user of since OS 7.
How exactly did AT&T have a walled garden, at least in the same sense as Apple? Normally I'm against that much control, but I don't think it bothers me as much because there are other options.
I'd probably be less okay with Apple's garden if my choices were only Apple, and I've been a fan of/user of since OS 7.
Multimedia
Sep 26, 10:43 AM
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2480
I know they're making a PCI Express, DDR2, SATA II version though. Old news to me...Thanks but that looks like it's only of PCs. Do you know it works in Mac G5 Quads and Mac Pros?
I went to the GIGA-BYTE TECHNOLOGY CO website and it looks like they don't even make that i-RAM card any more. The link to the above article is from July 25, 2005 more than a year ago.
I know they're making a PCI Express, DDR2, SATA II version though. Old news to me...Thanks but that looks like it's only of PCs. Do you know it works in Mac G5 Quads and Mac Pros?
I went to the GIGA-BYTE TECHNOLOGY CO website and it looks like they don't even make that i-RAM card any more. The link to the above article is from July 25, 2005 more than a year ago.
nixd2001
Oct 12, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by ddtlm
Wow I missed a lot by spending all of Friday away from this board. I am way behind in posts here, and I'm sure I'll miss a lot of things worth comment. But anyway, the code fragment:
Is a very poor benchmark. Compilers may be able to really dig into that and make the resulting executable perform the calculate radically different. In fact, I can tell you the answer outright: x1=20000, x2=20000, x3 = 400000000. It took me 2 seconds or so. Does this mean that I am a better computer than a G4 and a P4? No, it means I realized that the loop can be reduced to simple data assignments. I have a better compiler, thats it.
I'll see about adding more thoughts later.
there is a lot a compiler could do to this - by us all (well, those who have the interest in the assembler output of a compiler at least) having a look at what the respective compilers have done, we can form more of an informed opinion of what works out to the benefit of the P4 for this case. This might all be a bit geeky, but I am intersted at least.
Wow I missed a lot by spending all of Friday away from this board. I am way behind in posts here, and I'm sure I'll miss a lot of things worth comment. But anyway, the code fragment:
Is a very poor benchmark. Compilers may be able to really dig into that and make the resulting executable perform the calculate radically different. In fact, I can tell you the answer outright: x1=20000, x2=20000, x3 = 400000000. It took me 2 seconds or so. Does this mean that I am a better computer than a G4 and a P4? No, it means I realized that the loop can be reduced to simple data assignments. I have a better compiler, thats it.
I'll see about adding more thoughts later.
there is a lot a compiler could do to this - by us all (well, those who have the interest in the assembler output of a compiler at least) having a look at what the respective compilers have done, we can form more of an informed opinion of what works out to the benefit of the P4 for this case. This might all be a bit geeky, but I am intersted at least.
*LTD*
Apr 28, 08:12 AM
Right, but how is that not a fad? By definition, it doesn't matter how said fad ends, it simply means that it's overall existence is temporary.
I agree that it it was replaced by newer technology that does more, but it still was a fad in the end.
You don't get it.
I agree that it it was replaced by newer technology that does more, but it still was a fad in the end.
You don't get it.
mmmcheese
Jul 12, 09:54 AM
I expect they will be Xeon based....but here's a crazy thought. Maybe, since Intel is supposed to be designing the motherboard, they will be putting 2 dual core Conroe in each machcine. I know what you're saying...impossible. Yeah, Intel said that about the early Celeron too...no SMP, but it was possible, and popular with enthusiasts because it was affordable. If anyone would know the tricks and backdoors to unlocking the processors, it would be Intel.
Of course I'm sure Intel would prefer to sell Xeon processors to Apple, even if they sold them at the same price as Conroe. Since Apple is Intel's new show pony, they want to have their entire processor line represented. Budget/Yonah...Mobile/Merom...Mainstream Desktop/Conroe....Workstation and Server/Xeon.
Of course I'm sure Intel would prefer to sell Xeon processors to Apple, even if they sold them at the same price as Conroe. Since Apple is Intel's new show pony, they want to have their entire processor line represented. Budget/Yonah...Mobile/Merom...Mainstream Desktop/Conroe....Workstation and Server/Xeon.
jsw
Sep 26, 12:53 PM
...the DC PM is a DOG for even the simplest type of stuff.
Odd, since my three-year-old dual-2.0 PM still does a great job for more than just "the simplest type of stuff"... so you're saying that Apple actually made the dual-core PMs slower than their much-older dual-CPU ancestors?
Odd, since my three-year-old dual-2.0 PM still does a great job for more than just "the simplest type of stuff"... so you're saying that Apple actually made the dual-core PMs slower than their much-older dual-CPU ancestors?
skunk
Mar 12, 04:49 AM
Presumably this is/was the selfsame containment building which was supposed to contain the pressurised radioactive steam which was vented from the reactor. The billowing cloud is described elsewhere as "vapour", i.e. "steam". Seems difficult to reconcile the picture with public statements about a "tiny" amount of radioactive material being released.
Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 29, 04:18 PM
This is just logic. uv AND heat are more potent due to o-zone decimation. Let me see if i can think of an example...............................erm ok car windows filter out uv rays and are tinted so they keep out some heat. If the window is closed you are a little more protected and a little cooler, if it is open you are a little more unprotected and hotter. (in summertime when the temperature is hotter and the earth is tilted towerd the sun)
Hmmm... I don't want to be rude but you really should have some basic knowledge in physics before you make statements like that.
Hmmm... I don't want to be rude but you really should have some basic knowledge in physics before you make statements like that.
MacCoaster
Oct 13, 04:16 AM
Overclocked my Athlon 1.4GHz Tbird to 1.522GHz, benchmark results (under C#, which was fastest) did an average of 7390 milliseconds (7.39 seconds). w00t!
Gotta love overclocking.
Gotta love overclocking.
Sydde
Mar 14, 12:56 PM
Silly boy, the Earth's magma would swallow that 'little' pill with no problem.
And gravity has yet to go up. :p LOL
So who was it posting the map?
And gravity has yet to go up. :p LOL
So who was it posting the map?
VPrime
Apr 6, 05:46 PM
My main issues when I switched was no
-cut/paste files in finder.
-No maximise window
-red x didnt quit program.
-enter/return renames instead of opens
-No directory location bar in finder (to tell you the folder structure/where you are)
-Plus a few more that were already mentioned
But after a few weeks all the problems went away. These "issues" are not really issues, it is just a different OS and you are still in the windows mindset. Once you accept things are different you learn and adapt.
Cut and paste in finder, sure it would be handy sometimes.. But the UI of OSX is built around an alternative. you can click and drag any file, hold t over a location and the folders spring open. Its not a perfect replacement (sometimes quite slower) but it gets the job done.
Or you just get accustomed to having more windows open and drag between them (usually the case especially because expose is awesome)..
This being said, I still want cut/paste in finder.. But the alternative is quite usable.
-Maximize.. Really this is just a different OS. You cant expect it to behave the same way. OSX is a great multi tasking OS. Having multiple windows open is much easier to manage (especially because of tools like expose). The "maximise" is really a fit window to contents button. It will increase the window size to make sure everything fits. So a web page will get as big as it needs to fit with out scrolling... The only problem I have with this is that it isn't consistent with every app.. Some programs don't enlarge the window to fit the contents. It is up to the developer.
But after using it for a few weeks you get used to it, and actually like it comapred to taking up the full screen (usually...).
-return/enter renaming.. This is just a different OS. you have to re learn some hot keys. It's the way of life. Instead of enter, you press command+o.
-No Directory path... Well there is. inside of finder you can turn on 2 options. One to show the folder structure at the bottom of the finder window (like a status bar) and navigate up/down a folder tree. open up finder, go to View> select show PAth bar.
2. customize the finder tool bar and add a path icon. This adds a trop down button which shows the path and lets you jump back.
3. Terminal command which shows the directory path right at the top of a finder window. This replaces the current directory name with the path.
Really, there are changes. Some annoying, but that comes with the territory . You are using a different OS after all. Most of the annoyances or frustrations are early on and mainly because you are not familiar with the OS. But after survive them, you really do tend to work faster and more efficient in OS X.
I have been a windows user since 3.1, grew up with windows. Windows was work.
But A few years ago I took the dive and switched to OSX.. I love every second of it and don't think I will ever go back to using windows full time..
My brother who was even a big gamer and used windows exclusively.. even said he would never use another OS full time other than windows (used linux ont he side..) has switched to OSX. Bought a macbook for school (due to large battery and build quality). Now he plans to buy an iMac to replace his desktop because he likes OSX so much (which he didn't at first).
-cut/paste files in finder.
-No maximise window
-red x didnt quit program.
-enter/return renames instead of opens
-No directory location bar in finder (to tell you the folder structure/where you are)
-Plus a few more that were already mentioned
But after a few weeks all the problems went away. These "issues" are not really issues, it is just a different OS and you are still in the windows mindset. Once you accept things are different you learn and adapt.
Cut and paste in finder, sure it would be handy sometimes.. But the UI of OSX is built around an alternative. you can click and drag any file, hold t over a location and the folders spring open. Its not a perfect replacement (sometimes quite slower) but it gets the job done.
Or you just get accustomed to having more windows open and drag between them (usually the case especially because expose is awesome)..
This being said, I still want cut/paste in finder.. But the alternative is quite usable.
-Maximize.. Really this is just a different OS. You cant expect it to behave the same way. OSX is a great multi tasking OS. Having multiple windows open is much easier to manage (especially because of tools like expose). The "maximise" is really a fit window to contents button. It will increase the window size to make sure everything fits. So a web page will get as big as it needs to fit with out scrolling... The only problem I have with this is that it isn't consistent with every app.. Some programs don't enlarge the window to fit the contents. It is up to the developer.
But after using it for a few weeks you get used to it, and actually like it comapred to taking up the full screen (usually...).
-return/enter renaming.. This is just a different OS. you have to re learn some hot keys. It's the way of life. Instead of enter, you press command+o.
-No Directory path... Well there is. inside of finder you can turn on 2 options. One to show the folder structure at the bottom of the finder window (like a status bar) and navigate up/down a folder tree. open up finder, go to View> select show PAth bar.
2. customize the finder tool bar and add a path icon. This adds a trop down button which shows the path and lets you jump back.
3. Terminal command which shows the directory path right at the top of a finder window. This replaces the current directory name with the path.
Really, there are changes. Some annoying, but that comes with the territory . You are using a different OS after all. Most of the annoyances or frustrations are early on and mainly because you are not familiar with the OS. But after survive them, you really do tend to work faster and more efficient in OS X.
I have been a windows user since 3.1, grew up with windows. Windows was work.
But A few years ago I took the dive and switched to OSX.. I love every second of it and don't think I will ever go back to using windows full time..
My brother who was even a big gamer and used windows exclusively.. even said he would never use another OS full time other than windows (used linux ont he side..) has switched to OSX. Bought a macbook for school (due to large battery and build quality). Now he plans to buy an iMac to replace his desktop because he likes OSX so much (which he didn't at first).
torbjoern
Apr 24, 11:12 AM
The deal with religious people is founded in human nature; it's the need to have faith in something bigger than oneself. For some reason, the Church of Scientology comes to my mind when I'm writing this. Oh yes, here is my question: how many religions are founded on somebody's desire to exploit that need?
Lately I read that the iPhone was considered the world's greatest invention. It isn't. God is the greatest invention ever.
Lately I read that the iPhone was considered the world's greatest invention. It isn't. God is the greatest invention ever.
AndroidfoLife
Apr 9, 02:50 PM
Nintendo and Sony beg to differ....
Here is an easy way to explain it. You can heat a slice of bread in a toaster and a microwave oven. Are you going to say microwaves compeat with toasters now. When they do not heat bread the same way.
Here is an easy way to explain it. You can heat a slice of bread in a toaster and a microwave oven. Are you going to say microwaves compeat with toasters now. When they do not heat bread the same way.
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