mkjellman
Sep 18, 11:14 PM
to be honest - i've been looking at the lenovo offerings and i'm attracted. i have been a diehard apple fan my entire life, but if all it means is i have to use tiger clone (aka vista) but at least have hardware that is current with technology i'll buy.
so yes, apple has a monopoly, but they can't be to jack ass about it because people will start to go other places no matter how good ilife is.
there is no excuse that one of the top 5 notebook venders in the united states on intel architecture is behind this much its competitors.
so yes, apple has a monopoly, but they can't be to jack ass about it because people will start to go other places no matter how good ilife is.
there is no excuse that one of the top 5 notebook venders in the united states on intel architecture is behind this much its competitors.
rezenclowd3
Aug 5, 01:06 PM
I think I will only enjoy the game should I buy a very expensive racing wheel. I already have the seat setup.... a racing game using the standard controller is just odd.
Pre-ordered the US Collectors edition, but now I would like to change that for the UK edition... I am ready to drop my pre-order should the multiplayer review prove lacking, and hopefully they give darn good penalties for hack driving online (DQ, through pit lane etc) Rubbing IS NOT racing! That's for drivers who do not have control of their car.
Pre-ordered the US Collectors edition, but now I would like to change that for the UK edition... I am ready to drop my pre-order should the multiplayer review prove lacking, and hopefully they give darn good penalties for hack driving online (DQ, through pit lane etc) Rubbing IS NOT racing! That's for drivers who do not have control of their car.
dscuber9000
Apr 27, 02:57 PM
The birthers have moved on to say that because Obama "doesn't have allegiance to America" or some BS like that, he is now no longer a natural born citizen (http://www.birthers.org/). :rolleyes:
DeathChill
Mar 31, 10:55 PM
iPhone is sold as buy-one-get-one-free? In what country would that be?
Narnia.
Narnia.
NoSmokingBandit
Aug 19, 02:25 PM
All that I get from that quote is that they are using older models, but that they will, obviously, be rendered in the new GT5 engine. So, the marketing team can say all they want, but actual screen shots of Standard™ cars do not show much improvement, if any at all, resolution increase notwithstanding.
Based on what, old gameplay footage? Game are often tested with old resources while the new models are being built. God of War used a stick man with a sword until they got Kratos done.
Look at this pic:
http://us.gran-turismo.com/c/binary/images/5294/gamescom2010_029a.jpg
That rx-7 looks tons better than anything GT4 ever had, but its still not as nice as the "premium" cars. I am assuming of course that this is live-rendered, and i believe it is due to the jaggies on the rear of the rx-7, which i can't imagine they would let slide on a pre-rendered shot.
Time will tell, of course, but i'm certain they didnt just import models from GT4. What the hell would they have been doing for the past 5 years?
Based on what, old gameplay footage? Game are often tested with old resources while the new models are being built. God of War used a stick man with a sword until they got Kratos done.
Look at this pic:
http://us.gran-turismo.com/c/binary/images/5294/gamescom2010_029a.jpg
That rx-7 looks tons better than anything GT4 ever had, but its still not as nice as the "premium" cars. I am assuming of course that this is live-rendered, and i believe it is due to the jaggies on the rear of the rx-7, which i can't imagine they would let slide on a pre-rendered shot.
Time will tell, of course, but i'm certain they didnt just import models from GT4. What the hell would they have been doing for the past 5 years?
CaoCao
Mar 3, 10:05 PM
Well Catholic people believe its a Sin to be gay, and in fear of parents saying anything about a gay man teaching their kids....Well being gay and teaching at a religious school and being gay just doesnt work...that sucks though for him
Being gay is not a sin, homosexual actions are a sin.
Bill, it's OK to react emotionally. We're people, not robots. :)
Query: How do meat bags such as yourself live with such amounts of water sloshing around in you?
Being gay is not a sin, homosexual actions are a sin.
Bill, it's OK to react emotionally. We're people, not robots. :)
Query: How do meat bags such as yourself live with such amounts of water sloshing around in you?
ergle2
Sep 14, 08:09 PM
Not sure about beyond 8 which can be paired into a 16 core Mac. Perhaps. Too far out to tell although it is casually mentioned in the roadmap.
New micro-arch -- Nehalem is due 2008.
New micro-arch -- Nehalem is due 2008.
wmmk
Aug 27, 12:16 AM
PowerBook G5 next tuesday?
that is so not funny at all any more:rolleyes:
that is so not funny at all any more:rolleyes:
Tones2
Apr 11, 01:08 PM
grrrr stop posting this macrumors, i want the iphone 5 in june!
These MacRumors postings of availability guesses are ridiculous. Just like the projected iPad 2 delays. It'll never happen.
Apple has always released an iPhone update in the June / July timeframe. They've created significant expectation in that regard. The smartphone market is at a critical turning point right now with Android and Win 7 phones leading the innovation and capturing bigger shares of the market. There's no way that Apple can lay back and wait until October or November - the iPhone 4 is way out of touch with the current market and will lose ground. Stock prices will tumble with no June / July release.
I'm sure that MacRumors will post someone saying that it will be a June / July release and then back the other way and back and forth probably until release day, just like they did with the iPad 2. Heck, it's a business as well that feeds from this type of crazy speculation.
Tony
These MacRumors postings of availability guesses are ridiculous. Just like the projected iPad 2 delays. It'll never happen.
Apple has always released an iPhone update in the June / July timeframe. They've created significant expectation in that regard. The smartphone market is at a critical turning point right now with Android and Win 7 phones leading the innovation and capturing bigger shares of the market. There's no way that Apple can lay back and wait until October or November - the iPhone 4 is way out of touch with the current market and will lose ground. Stock prices will tumble with no June / July release.
I'm sure that MacRumors will post someone saying that it will be a June / July release and then back the other way and back and forth probably until release day, just like they did with the iPad 2. Heck, it's a business as well that feeds from this type of crazy speculation.
Tony
backdraft
Aug 26, 02:49 PM
Call it what you want but these new MacBooks are crap. Yea there is people who are enjoying theirs without a hitch but look at all the reports of problems. Not once on this forum have we had a flood of problems with a single unit. Apple dropped the ball on this one. Poorly made unit
Apple is now getting their parts from the same bin that PC makers use. Intel = cheap parts. Cheap parts = low quality.
Same thing with the batteries....
OS X can run on PPC and X86. Apple should target X86 to consumers and PPC for pro's.
That $100 million that Apple just wasted on Creative could have meant new supercooled mobile G5's if it would have been pumped into IBM (Power.org). Instead we have these halfbaked Wintel parts to deal with MUCH fewer problems with PowerPC based Mac's.
http://www.appledefects.com/?cat=6
http://www.appledefects.com/wiki/index.php?title=MacBook_Pro
Apple is now getting their parts from the same bin that PC makers use. Intel = cheap parts. Cheap parts = low quality.
Same thing with the batteries....
OS X can run on PPC and X86. Apple should target X86 to consumers and PPC for pro's.
That $100 million that Apple just wasted on Creative could have meant new supercooled mobile G5's if it would have been pumped into IBM (Power.org). Instead we have these halfbaked Wintel parts to deal with MUCH fewer problems with PowerPC based Mac's.
http://www.appledefects.com/?cat=6
http://www.appledefects.com/wiki/index.php?title=MacBook_Pro
littleman23408
Dec 4, 04:59 PM
A-spec level 19. Haven't played it for a week now, maybe I should play this weekend and get it to 25.
I think I got mine up to 16 or 17 last night. Finished the second license with all gold, started a bspec driver, and did some other things.
yep im pretty sure thats what i saw! pretty cool this game
my PSN name is psychofetus
Awesome, I sent you a friend request. Edit: I received your friend request.
I think I got mine up to 16 or 17 last night. Finished the second license with all gold, started a bspec driver, and did some other things.
yep im pretty sure thats what i saw! pretty cool this game
my PSN name is psychofetus
Awesome, I sent you a friend request. Edit: I received your friend request.
portishead
Apr 9, 02:06 AM
Professional Editor for about 10 years. I came up before the DV revolution, and before Final Cut even existed. Before Non linear editing even existed really - or at least was widely used. It's crazy how far the editing world has come when I look back.
I did my first non-linear editing on an Amiga video toaster. I also learned Media 100 & Premiere. I have used FCP on and off since version 1.0. I used Avid Professionally around 5 years, and now back on FCP for about 4 years. It's not really my choice, I use what my employer uses. Avid was great when I used it but the editing world is growing so fast. I didn't like the closed system, and the expensive hardware. I will say I was faster on an Avid than I probably ever will be in Final Cut. Maybe that's my own laziness, but whatever...
So here we are in 2011. It seems Premiere has come on strong and is doing good things. I will most likely never use it though. I really like Final Cut, but if Apple ever got out of the game, I'd go back to Avid. It is my opinion that Avid is better for narrative, but Final Cut is better for a more diverse set of projects. For what I do at my job, Final Cut works fine, and I prefer it over Avid.
People spend a lot of time arguing, but they are just editing systems. They all do essentially the same thing. Some edit software may have better features, or better compatibility with certain things, but software is always changing anyway.
I think Final Cut has been ahead of the game for most of the past 10 years. In the last year, maybe 2, I think it has lost ground to Premiere and Avid. It's normal. You can't be on top all of the time. I am hoping with this next release, it will put Final Cut back on top for the foreseeable future.
Edit software is getting very good. I think we are very close to hitting a sweet spot. I cannot speak for Avid or Premiere since I haven't used them in several years but for Final Cut some things need to improve. I think the biggest problem is quicktime itself. It's become bloated with all the focus on iTunes music, and film. Apple needs to do something about this. It also needs to be 64-bit and use processing/memory better. Also better integration with Video cards. Also RGB 444 doesn't work in Final Cut. Compressor is horrible and outdated. I like Motion just fine although I would prefer a few interface tweaks which I won't get into. I don't ever use Soundtrack because I think it's horrible, and I have the luxury of having an audio guy at work.
I think Final Cut is a pretty good program and if Apple puts in a little more work it can be great. Different people have different workflows and want different things out of their edit systems. It's pointless arguing about specific features.
I LOVE ProRes and it has absolutely saved editing for me. I love editing and I'm exciting for what the next version of Final Cut will bring. Sorry for the rant this should have been a blog post instead.
I did my first non-linear editing on an Amiga video toaster. I also learned Media 100 & Premiere. I have used FCP on and off since version 1.0. I used Avid Professionally around 5 years, and now back on FCP for about 4 years. It's not really my choice, I use what my employer uses. Avid was great when I used it but the editing world is growing so fast. I didn't like the closed system, and the expensive hardware. I will say I was faster on an Avid than I probably ever will be in Final Cut. Maybe that's my own laziness, but whatever...
So here we are in 2011. It seems Premiere has come on strong and is doing good things. I will most likely never use it though. I really like Final Cut, but if Apple ever got out of the game, I'd go back to Avid. It is my opinion that Avid is better for narrative, but Final Cut is better for a more diverse set of projects. For what I do at my job, Final Cut works fine, and I prefer it over Avid.
People spend a lot of time arguing, but they are just editing systems. They all do essentially the same thing. Some edit software may have better features, or better compatibility with certain things, but software is always changing anyway.
I think Final Cut has been ahead of the game for most of the past 10 years. In the last year, maybe 2, I think it has lost ground to Premiere and Avid. It's normal. You can't be on top all of the time. I am hoping with this next release, it will put Final Cut back on top for the foreseeable future.
Edit software is getting very good. I think we are very close to hitting a sweet spot. I cannot speak for Avid or Premiere since I haven't used them in several years but for Final Cut some things need to improve. I think the biggest problem is quicktime itself. It's become bloated with all the focus on iTunes music, and film. Apple needs to do something about this. It also needs to be 64-bit and use processing/memory better. Also better integration with Video cards. Also RGB 444 doesn't work in Final Cut. Compressor is horrible and outdated. I like Motion just fine although I would prefer a few interface tweaks which I won't get into. I don't ever use Soundtrack because I think it's horrible, and I have the luxury of having an audio guy at work.
I think Final Cut is a pretty good program and if Apple puts in a little more work it can be great. Different people have different workflows and want different things out of their edit systems. It's pointless arguing about specific features.
I LOVE ProRes and it has absolutely saved editing for me. I love editing and I'm exciting for what the next version of Final Cut will bring. Sorry for the rant this should have been a blog post instead.
dernhelm
Aug 7, 04:11 PM
Maybe not in a client type computer but it exists in Windows Server 2003 and it is called Volume Shadow Copy.
Of curse it doesn't look as nice !
You're the closest so far, except that it is by turns both not as sophisticated as a Snapshot, and in some sense more sophisticated. A snapshot allows you to "capture" the current state of a disk at a particular point in time - further new updates do not impact the snapshot. This assures a consistent backup as of a given point in time. This is not what Apple is doing here, as they are simply storing the old version of the file on the backup system.
However, in Time Machine, "snapshots" are not deliberate actions, they occur everytime something is changed. It would be tedious/near impossible to restore your entire disk back to a certain known good point using Time Machine - but that's a SysAdmin thing. It is almost simplicity itself to restore a given file or set of files back to what they were 30 minutes ago. And that is something that "everyman" needs a lot. If your choices are your current corrupt version, or the version as of the last snapshot, that is often a choice between bad and worse.
Of curse it doesn't look as nice !
You're the closest so far, except that it is by turns both not as sophisticated as a Snapshot, and in some sense more sophisticated. A snapshot allows you to "capture" the current state of a disk at a particular point in time - further new updates do not impact the snapshot. This assures a consistent backup as of a given point in time. This is not what Apple is doing here, as they are simply storing the old version of the file on the backup system.
However, in Time Machine, "snapshots" are not deliberate actions, they occur everytime something is changed. It would be tedious/near impossible to restore your entire disk back to a certain known good point using Time Machine - but that's a SysAdmin thing. It is almost simplicity itself to restore a given file or set of files back to what they were 30 minutes ago. And that is something that "everyman" needs a lot. If your choices are your current corrupt version, or the version as of the last snapshot, that is often a choice between bad and worse.
leekohler
Feb 27, 11:46 PM
Normally, I would say they could fire the guy, but this is just not right. It seems someone was misled and it was not the college. Either way, the church will eventually come to realize just how misguided they are, or not- and go the way of the dinosaur. Either option is fine with me.
BJNY
Aug 23, 11:05 AM
If you're willing, you could start up from the Hardware Test disc, and run the test which makes the fans go non-stop except for the rearmost fans.
Temp widget http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/status/istatnano.html
Temp widget http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/status/istatnano.html
TheBobcat
Nov 28, 09:24 PM
The record companies know that their business model is archaic and unnecessary. With computers and MP3, and online stores like iTunes, artists no longer need labels. This is their death rattle trying desperately to make themselves more money as it slips through their fingers.
Besides, artists always have made most of their money from merchandise and tours, the labels are just a middle man that got bypassed by technology. Instead of adapting, they're fighting it, and that's why they will cease to exist in the future.
Besides, artists always have made most of their money from merchandise and tours, the labels are just a middle man that got bypassed by technology. Instead of adapting, they're fighting it, and that's why they will cease to exist in the future.
gnasher729
Mar 26, 07:05 PM
so, it's beta #1? Feature complete but still has bugs to iron out.
Golden master is usually when they are confident of no bugs isn't it?
Golden master is the one that gets shipped.
"Golden master candidate" is one with no known bugs that need fixing, but there are plenty of people still testing, so you expect new bugs to come up that need fixing. You fix them and have a new "Golden master candidate". With the first "Golden master candidate" you are usually quite sure that there will be bugs found.
And you _know_ there are bugs in the Golden Master, you just reached the point where you aren't finding any more bugs. Some customers tend to be quite good at finding them :mad: which is why you have 10.6.1, 10.6.2 and so on.
Golden master is usually when they are confident of no bugs isn't it?
Golden master is the one that gets shipped.
"Golden master candidate" is one with no known bugs that need fixing, but there are plenty of people still testing, so you expect new bugs to come up that need fixing. You fix them and have a new "Golden master candidate". With the first "Golden master candidate" you are usually quite sure that there will be bugs found.
And you _know_ there are bugs in the Golden Master, you just reached the point where you aren't finding any more bugs. Some customers tend to be quite good at finding them :mad: which is why you have 10.6.1, 10.6.2 and so on.
gnasher729
Aug 17, 03:52 AM
Lots of stuff on Anandtech about the poor memory performance on the Intel chipset.
Looks like the Xeons got killed by the G5 in Word in their tests.
Might be an interesting machine when/if the motherboard chipset/ memory performance issue is looked in to.
I think part 3 of their review will be telling, paring the machine up to XP machines in a variety of tests.
Anandtech has one big omission: They didn't look at the CPU usage at all. Word doesn't use more than one CPU. And may I say it is damned hard to do anything in Word where CPU usage is of any concern; how often do you export a thousand page Word document to HTML?
These machines can do many things simultaneously. So what would have happened if you were converting a DVD using Handbrake in the background while doing the Word test? On the dual core G5, one CPU would have been used by Word, so Handbrake slows down by 50%. On the Quad core Xeon, one core would have been used by Word, so Handbrake slows down only by 25%.
Looks like the Xeons got killed by the G5 in Word in their tests.
Might be an interesting machine when/if the motherboard chipset/ memory performance issue is looked in to.
I think part 3 of their review will be telling, paring the machine up to XP machines in a variety of tests.
Anandtech has one big omission: They didn't look at the CPU usage at all. Word doesn't use more than one CPU. And may I say it is damned hard to do anything in Word where CPU usage is of any concern; how often do you export a thousand page Word document to HTML?
These machines can do many things simultaneously. So what would have happened if you were converting a DVD using Handbrake in the background while doing the Word test? On the dual core G5, one CPU would have been used by Word, so Handbrake slows down by 50%. On the Quad core Xeon, one core would have been used by Word, so Handbrake slows down only by 25%.
Multimedia
Aug 18, 11:54 PM
So the webpages at Apple.com suggest the improvement of Xeon vs Quad G5 in FCP of 1.3- 1.4 times as fast as the Quad G5.
However, notice that it is footnoted that these results were obtained using a Beta version of FCP:
On The Mac Pro Performance Page (http://www.apple.com/macpro/performance.html) In the first section "Film and Video" footnote under the Bar Charts:
"Testing conducted by Apple in July 2006 using preproduction Mac Pro units and shipping Power Mac G5 Quad units. Mac Pro testing conducted with a beta version of Final Cut Pro."What does this mean for us: new version of FCP required for multiple core utilization?
I just took advanatage of the crossgrade, will it soon need an upgrade as well? I hope it is an update/download not as a version upgrade/purchase.I'm sure it will be a free download update not more money. But I'm not surprised. That's why I'm waiting until December 10 to mail in my Crossgrade form and DVD. I wanted to get all the updates until the offer expires December 20 on the install DVDs I get with my Crossgrade. Thanks for pointing out that detail. :)
I think it's safe to point out that when this MultiCore version of Final Cut Pro is released, that FCP performance will also improve on the Quad. The same will also likely be true when Leopard ships.
However, notice that it is footnoted that these results were obtained using a Beta version of FCP:
On The Mac Pro Performance Page (http://www.apple.com/macpro/performance.html) In the first section "Film and Video" footnote under the Bar Charts:
"Testing conducted by Apple in July 2006 using preproduction Mac Pro units and shipping Power Mac G5 Quad units. Mac Pro testing conducted with a beta version of Final Cut Pro."What does this mean for us: new version of FCP required for multiple core utilization?
I just took advanatage of the crossgrade, will it soon need an upgrade as well? I hope it is an update/download not as a version upgrade/purchase.I'm sure it will be a free download update not more money. But I'm not surprised. That's why I'm waiting until December 10 to mail in my Crossgrade form and DVD. I wanted to get all the updates until the offer expires December 20 on the install DVDs I get with my Crossgrade. Thanks for pointing out that detail. :)
I think it's safe to point out that when this MultiCore version of Final Cut Pro is released, that FCP performance will also improve on the Quad. The same will also likely be true when Leopard ships.
orthorim
Apr 7, 10:21 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
A 15" MBA (no optical) with dedicated graphics is my ideal Mac. It'll happen someday...
Same here except I don't need the dedicated gfx. For what? Games? Whenever I attempt to play a gfx intensive game on my mbp it gets super hot and the fans start to sound like a jet engine. That's not an appealing proposition. I'd rather play on the iPad , or games that don't require more than the built in gfx.
I am sitting out this generation of mbp. Get rid of the optical or I won't buy it. At least provide an option to officially replace it with a HD tray. I know it's not hard to hack, I have done it, but I don't see why I'd have to hack a brand new machine (and possibly void the warranty)
A 15" MBA (no optical) with dedicated graphics is my ideal Mac. It'll happen someday...
Same here except I don't need the dedicated gfx. For what? Games? Whenever I attempt to play a gfx intensive game on my mbp it gets super hot and the fans start to sound like a jet engine. That's not an appealing proposition. I'd rather play on the iPad , or games that don't require more than the built in gfx.
I am sitting out this generation of mbp. Get rid of the optical or I won't buy it. At least provide an option to officially replace it with a HD tray. I know it's not hard to hack, I have done it, but I don't see why I'd have to hack a brand new machine (and possibly void the warranty)
Chundles
Aug 27, 11:42 PM
I don't think we're going to see Merom in the MacBook Pros tomorrow. Of course, I'm HOPEING. If they were annouced tomorrow, it would make not only my day, but my month! I've been waiting since June and was expecing it at WWDC. So I'm keeping my fingers crosses 100%. If the're annouced tomorrow, I'm going to order it withen the first 5 minuts of me finding out.
Hopefully this will be my order.
15" MacBook Pro
2.33GHz
2GB Ram
256MB VRAM
Superdrive
+BT Mighty Mouse (x2)
BT Keyboard
Some sort of bag for the MBP
D-Link USB Bluetooth drive
*Crosses fingers*
Why are you buying the DLink Bluetooth thingy?
Hopefully this will be my order.
15" MacBook Pro
2.33GHz
2GB Ram
256MB VRAM
Superdrive
+BT Mighty Mouse (x2)
BT Keyboard
Some sort of bag for the MBP
D-Link USB Bluetooth drive
*Crosses fingers*
Why are you buying the DLink Bluetooth thingy?
Bubba Satori
Apr 6, 08:17 AM
Forget about new Macs! just give us FCS A.S.A.P. :eek:
That makes a lot of sense.
Can't the most profitable corporation in the universe do two things at once?
That makes a lot of sense.
Can't the most profitable corporation in the universe do two things at once?
Eidorian
Aug 27, 09:50 AM
Are you sure that discount applies to the NEW Merom based Macs - I don't think so?The Mac Pro was added into the Major In Mac promo. Considering it was released 2 months after the promo started.
bassfingers
Apr 27, 01:49 PM
Who would think I'd support Bush? He's not conservative enough for me, and his administration spent to much.
How much did government intervene in business affairs during the Roaring 20's? The government has already failed to do what it should do: It should promote the common good. I find it hard to believe that the U.S. Government had this country's best interests at heart when I hear Mrs. Pelosi say that to find out what's in Obamacare, you need to pass it.
I know a lot about alcoholism and codependence because my mother is a nurse who specialized in treating alcoholics and other drug addicts and in counseling them. You don't help an alcoholic by protecting him from the consequences of his actions. The protection can help him make even bigger mistakes. I've seen that happen in many families I know of that include alcoholics. I also know about entitled welfare recipients who abuse social programs by demanding too much from social programs, by getting it, and by defrauding them. I saw the entitlement firsthand when a relative of mine was a landlord who rented houses to welfare recipients. Welfare recipients ruined a house, my relative kept the security deposit, and then the family got the Department of Social Services to put them into a house for twice the rent my relative charged. But the family still had the nerve to complain that my relative had overcharged it.
Good points. All of them.
not sarcasm^
How much did government intervene in business affairs during the Roaring 20's? The government has already failed to do what it should do: It should promote the common good. I find it hard to believe that the U.S. Government had this country's best interests at heart when I hear Mrs. Pelosi say that to find out what's in Obamacare, you need to pass it.
I know a lot about alcoholism and codependence because my mother is a nurse who specialized in treating alcoholics and other drug addicts and in counseling them. You don't help an alcoholic by protecting him from the consequences of his actions. The protection can help him make even bigger mistakes. I've seen that happen in many families I know of that include alcoholics. I also know about entitled welfare recipients who abuse social programs by demanding too much from social programs, by getting it, and by defrauding them. I saw the entitlement firsthand when a relative of mine was a landlord who rented houses to welfare recipients. Welfare recipients ruined a house, my relative kept the security deposit, and then the family got the Department of Social Services to put them into a house for twice the rent my relative charged. But the family still had the nerve to complain that my relative had overcharged it.
Good points. All of them.
not sarcasm^
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